FleshFactor FleshFactor


FleshFactor: Re: re: Fascinated, but frustrated too.

A E C  F O R U M - "F L E S H F A C T O R"

In reference to my earlier question to Pattie Maes, where I ask:
"Do you work keeping in mind how your research can be used by the 
military to destroy humans ?,"

Josephine Anstey wrote:

>I wonder if this is a useful question to ask ourselves. Although I can
>see it is naive to suggest that there is a "pure" drive in Science
>towards knowledge or a "pure" drive in Art towards beauty (or whatever)
> - I also feel that we limit our scientific and artistic imaginations if
>we work with one eye on the harm our work could do, or the evil purposes
>it could be put to.

Regarding what I said, I don't understand this answer...

I meant that there is no science without 'ethics', there is no art
without 'ethics': Other than that I don't mean that science has to be
pure and art beautiful. 

I'm an artist, I know what I have to do, but I'm not so mad to say art
has to go there and to be that...

1 -When I'm speaking about cultural phenomenon by definition they have to
interact with a context - it isn't a dream of purity but the definition
made by Levi Strauss about cultural phenomenon around the world

2 -When I'm saying that there is no science without criticism about
itself, this is a reference to Einstein

3- When I ask the question :"Do you work keeping in mind how your research
can be used by the military to destroy humans ?" This is a simplest way to
ask Maes (or anyone) if she has ethics regarding her work. 

It is very easy to do something without thinking about anything, by
saying your work is made by  'black power', you are not responsible.
This is a political comportment: look the politicians regarding the new
birth of fascism in Germany and France, they are doing the same thing...

I don't know how to answer when I'm speaking about referenced philosophic
concepts and I'm getting responses something like I'm dreaming about

I hate purity !!! I hate hierarchy !!! I hate taxonomy !!!! and
classifications !!! We know who used all of these concepts in culture
during twentieth century.

Josephine Anstey went on to write:

>I am working with VR to create an intelligent agent with whom we could
>interact at a psychological level. I want my agent to model the behavior
>of an overwhelming mother/lover - and for the user to experience
>conflicting emotions with relation to the agent. I don't think most
>people would have a problem with any art work that set up, or tried to
>set up this kind of dynamic. But should I stop working because maybe the
>military could get hold of this idea and create some kind of virtual
>torture chamber? I think not.

I'm thinking you are all right, you should sell it to them ....  Like this
you will get more money to continue, and everything is OK. 

>From an artistic point of view, what does it add to use a virtual agent
to make an artwork about psychological level, when you can interact with
others persons to investigate such psychological phenomena? 

Excluding the VR technology, what is new about this work on an aesthetic
level? There are already so many great films from Bergman and Godard about
that...  And such beautiful installations from Douglas Gordon about 'open
Anstey continued:

>For myself, as an artist/scientist, I feel I should do my work as best I
>can. As a world citizen I should be alert to the ways our culture uses
>technology and intervene in the political process as far as I am able to
>prevent the destruction of humans.  But then do I end up with an
>unacceptable dualism? 

No, but you will think another way if you read Kant about this kind of

Maybe in this kind of discussion people are more apt to dream about
'Frankenstein' and to read the 'new Java code' than reading an important

A naive artist,

Valery Grancher    <vgranger@imaginet.fr>

'No memory' at the CAPC Musee d'art contemporain de Bordeaux:


'No memory' at the ars electronica center 'futurelab artist in residence':


to (un)subscribe  the Forum just mail to
fleshfactor-request@aec.at (message text 'subscribe'/'unsubscribe')
send messages to fleshfactor@aec.at

[FleshFactor] [subscribe]